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Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson
Hi Paul vink3
I'm not sure if I understand you right when you recommend treating thyroid hormones with T3 only. I assume T3 is a synthetic hormone, and as I see it, I would think, by using desiccated thyroid I'm optimal medicated, because pigs’ thyroid is almost identical to peoples' thyroid, with all Ts - T1, T2, T3, T4 and even T0 (= T zero) and kalsitonin.
Why would T3 only be better to use for some people anyways?
Hi Elbeth - because some people do not get well with natural thyroid.
Yes T4/T3 or natural thyroid is the first choice medication but there are many reasons why some people can never get well on natural thyroid. I am one of these and there are many more people in this category.
My website http://recoveringwithT3.com has a lot of information on this and why thyroid blood tests can sometimes not reveal what is happening in our cells.
Some important information for you to consider is:
1. T3 is the biologically active thyroid hormone. The others T3,T2,T1 have some effect - but very little. T3 is ten times more effective than T4 for example.
2. For someone to get well with thyroid hormone they need only to have enough T3 in their cells and have that T3 active there. They need no T4. I have no T4 in my body - yet I am well!
3. The way the thyroid hormones work is that enough T3 has to enter the cells. Within the cells enough T3 has to bind to receptors on the mitochondria and in the cell nuclei. The T3 makes the mitochondria produce ATP energy (if there is enough glucose). The T3 makes the nucleus produce the right proteins.
4. Blood tests only measure thyroid hormones in the blood - they cannot see what is happening in the cells - at all!!!!
5. Many things can go wrong between thyroid hormones being in the blood and going inside the cells and making the insides of the cells work right. If it goes wrong we cannot see this in blood tests at all!!!!
6. My 'Recovering with T3' book explains how all this works, what can go wrong and how it can be fixed.
7. My background is science and I approached all of this with a scientific method and with medical references. The information in my book is backed up with medical science.
8. Doctors do not know most of this. They think thyroid blood tests tell them what is happening in the body - they don't for some people.
9. For some people the problems they have cause what I call 'impaired cellular response to thyroid hormone' - which means there may be thyroid hormone in the blood and even in the cells but it doesn't work right. To fix this much more T3 need to be there and natural thyroid cannot be made to work.
10. Only some people need T3 on its own. However, for them it gives them back their health - it did for me and it has for thousands of others.
I hope this is clear - it is not a myth - it is a fact.
Best wishes,
Paul
Hi Paul xx8
I think I understand this very complicated state of hormone dysfunction.
I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in February of 2005. As usual here in Norway, I was treated with T4 only. But, I didn't get well at, and after four years when I learned about combination treatment T4 + T3 from others, I asked my physician to try it.
I almost at once felt much better, got my energy back so I even asked my physician if T3 alone could be good for me. He didn't approve, or hadn't heard of treating hypothyroidism on T3 only.
Unfortunately, the good feeling on my combination treatment only lasted a year. I was right back to start, so this time having read Hypothyroidism Type 2: the Epidemic by dr. Mark Starr and Stop The Thyroid Madness by Janie Bowthorpe, I didn't hesitate to ask my physician for a prescription for desiccated Thyroid, which I am on now.
I have been on this medication since August 2011, and my experience so far is that many of my complaints vanished. xx9
Best from Elbeth byebye1
Hi Elbeth!
I have read Paul Robinsons book, and plan to switch to Erfa as soon as I'm ready (working on my iron, B12, folate and vit. D). If you still don't feel 100% with your NDT dosage, I think you can learn a lot from his book. There are people on another forum (STTM T3-only discussion group on facebook) that is trying out his method with NDT, and it seems to work just as sucessfull! I'm following their progress to get some tips and advice for myself. And as far as I have learned, Stark's book on hypo 2 was a great inspiration for Paul's work too.
Hi piri-piri haand1Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av piri-piri
I assume NDT is short for Natural Desiccated Thyroid? I too have ordered his book Recovering with T3 from adlibris. Hopefully I'm going to learn more about thyroid treatment, now about treatment with T3 xx7
Elbeth and Paul: I have understood that some people use only T3 just for a period, is that right, Paul? This is a way of fixing adrenal fatigue or, what? Could you say something about that, Paul?
I do not want to destroy your tread here, Elbeth, but maybe this solution of a problem could be worth to discuss here? vink11
From what I understand from the book, there are two sides to Paul's method.Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis
1. In the book you will find a lot of helpfull tools to find your optimal dosage on any T3-meds (both with pure T3, as in Liothyronin, and also with NDT, natural dessicated thyroid). You will learn how to use symptoms and signs to optimise the size of your doses, the timing between them, and how many doses you need during the day.
2. If you suffer from adrenal fatigue, you can use your T3-meds (both Liothyronine or NDT) to heal your adrenals with The circadian T3 method
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, Paul! :wink:
Yes, Elbeth. NDT= Natural Desiccated Thyroid. I'm to influenced by the american sites and books! You know how the americans just love acronyms....:wink:Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Elbeth
I love Stark's book - I agree with him nearly 100%. Often simply increasing NDT is enough for some people as long as their doctor's don't get too excited about low TSH. Sometimes other things like cortisol need to be addressed - this is where my Circadian T3 Method can help without the need for hydrocortisone.Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Elbeth
..ooops :?Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson
Should be T4 :?:
My doctor is cool with my TSH when the last time (one week ago) it was only 0.05. Earlier it has even been down to 0.02, without my doctor going gaga on me xx9Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson
oversettelse:Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Elbeth
Jeg er ikke sikker på om jeg forstår deg rett, når du anbefaler å behandle hypotyreose med kun T3. Jeg antar T3 er et syntetisk hormon, og slik jeg ser det, så vil jeg tro at man blir optimalt medisinert med naturlig thyroid, fordi grisens kjertel er nesten identisk med menneskers kjertel. Den inneholder alle T'ene - T1, T2, T3, T4, T0 og kalsitonin. Hvorfor er det bedre for noen å bruke kun T3?
Svar:Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson
Fordi noen ikke blir bra med naturlig thyroid. Kombinasjon av T4/T3 eller naturlig thyroid er alltid førstevalg av medisiner, men det er mange årsaker til at noen ikke blir bra på naturlig thyroid. Jeg er en av disse, og det er mange med meg.
Min hjemmeside http://recoveringwithT3.com har mye informasjon om dette, og om hvorfor blodprøver noen ganger ikke viser hva som foregår inni cellene våre.
Her er litt viktig informasjon som du må ta hensyn til:
1. T3 er det biologisk aktive stoffskiftehormonet. De andre, T4, T2 og T1, har noe effekt, men veldig lite. T3 er 10 ganger mer effektiv enn T4, for eksempel.
2. For å bli bra med stoffskiftehormoner, så trenger man bare ha nok T3 inni cellene og at T3 er aktiv der. Man trenger egentlig ikke T4. selv har jeg ingenting T4 i kroppen, og jeg er helt frisk!!
3. stoffskiftehormoner virker på den måten at nok T3 må komme inn i cellene. Inni cellene må igjen nok T3 binde seg til reseptorer i mitokondriene og celle-kjernen. T3 gjør at mitokondriene produserer ATP-energi (hvis man har nok glukose). T3 gjør også at celle-kjernen lager de rette proteinene.
4. Blodprøver måler bare stoffskiftehormoner i blodet. De kan overhode ikke si noe om hva som foregår inni cellene!
5. Det er mye som kan gå galt på veien for at stoffskiftehormonene i blodet skal komme seg inn i cellene og virke slik de skal der. Hvis noe går galt her, så kan det ikke vises på blodprøver!
6. Boka mi 'Recovering with T3' forklarer hvordan alt dette virker, hva som kan gå galt, og hvordan man kan reparere det.
7. Jeg har bakgrunn innen vitenskap, og jeg tilnærmet meg dette på en vitenskapelig måte og med medisinske referanser. Kunnskapen i boka mi er støttet av medisinsk vitenskap.
8. Leger kjenner ikke til det meste av dette. De tror blodprøver for stoffskiftet forteller dem hva som skjer i kroppen, men det gjør de ikke for noen.
9. For noen er problemene de har forårsaket av det jeg kaller 'svekket celle-respons på stoffskiftehormoner'. Det betyr at det kan godt være stoffskiftehormoner i blodet, og til og med i cellene, men det virker ikke slik det skal. For å fikse dette, så må man tilsette mye mer T3, og naturlig thyroid vil ikke virke her.
10. Men det er bare noen som trenger kun T3. Men de får også tilbake helsa - slik var det for meg, og for tusenvis av andre.
Jeg håper dette var klart nok - det er ikke en myte, men fakta!
I think I've answered this already.
Sometimes T4 or T4/T3 or natural thyroid just won't work because one of several problems inside the cells has happened.
An example would be problems with the receptors in the cell nucleus that bind with thyroid hormone. Some people have receptor damage and not enough receptors bind properly with thyroid hormone. The only way around this is to increase the amount of FT3 in the cells from the normal level to a much higher level. This can ONLY be done by using T3.
If someone has spent several years trying to use natural thyroid and their iron is Ok and everything else is OK and they are still unwell then T3 should be tried. Doctors try to tell people that there is 'some other problem' but it is rarely true - it is usually because the thyroid hormone treatment is not working.
T3 is the biologically active thyroid hormone - T4 DOES NOTHING ON ITS OWN - EVEN IN NATURAL THYROID T4 IS USELESS UNTIL IT IS TRANSFORMED INTO T3.
Some people are tired of being ill and just want to get well as fast as possible. For them T3 replacement can be the most direct and effective way of doing this. In some cases people will never get well even with NDT.
Yes, Paul, you have allready answered! I'm putting up translations of Questions and Answers, so all my posts starting with a quote and then 'oversettelse' (translation) is just for you to ignore! Unless you want to learn Norwegian.... ;-)
I'm a little confused help1Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson
First, I cannot understand how T4 came to be the "normal" medicine in treating Hypothyroidism, when it makes so many problems for so many patients.
When I started on a combination of T4 (75 mcg) + T3 (10 mg) daily, I immediately got better, and within a month we raised T3 to 20 mg. Sadly the good feeling and new energy only lasted for about a year.
I think I am one who can't convert T4 to T3, since T4 only treatment only made me worse. I'm now on 3 ½ grains Thyroid (217.5 mg daily). So why did the combination of syntetic medicines make me worse while NDT dosn't ?
Probably because the pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics of synthetic T3 and T4 are quite different from the NDT. That's why they are not only generally working differently from NDT in the human body, but they also works differently in different people.Sitat:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Elbeth
One should not forget that while hormones in NDT are bound to thyroglobulin and other proteins / enzymes etc., synthetic T3 and T4 are "naked" molecules, T4 molecules are even made patentable by changing the molecular structure so those synthetic hormones are not longer exactly like the "real thing", because nature-identical synthetic hormones can not be patented, and therefore they can not bring significant profits for the pharmaceutical industry.
The "real" synthetic T3 is not patented... (only some different manufacturing processes are). One might therefore wonder whether it could be those relatively poor earnings of the synthetic T3, which are a contributing factor to the medical profession' "resistance" against offering their patients a combination therapy with Liothyronine? It would not be the first time that the medical profession favors the treatments they have shares in, right? I'm just asking ...
