Hello Paul! I have some questions I hope you have time to answer.

EDIT/Admin: This thread is translated into Norwegian by piri-piri. You can find the translated thread here: https://www.stofskifteforum.dk/showthread.php?t=14349

Hello Paul!

Thank you for answering our questions!

I have some questions I hope you have time to answer:

1. I am on hydrocortison treatment for my low cortisol levels. I also use Erfa Thyroid, and some other hormones. Is it possible that there is a problem with getting enough T3 when you use too long time to recover fra low adrenal activity?

2. Can you explane circadian rythm and T3 and cortisol? I think I read something about the importance of circadian rythm when you take your T3? Should I consider take some of my Thyroid in the early morning/late night? Could it be vital for me?

3. When you stop using T3/T4 combination and use only T3, will there be a lot of sideeffects by doing this? Or is this change in medication smooth and ok to do? What kind of sideeffects should I expect if I start on T3 treatment only?

Hello Vigdis - let me take you points one by one:

1. Is it possible that there is a problem with getting enough T3 when you use too long time to recover fra low adrenal activity?

The answer to this is complex as all hormonal problems tend to be. Low cortisol levels do several things. Most importantly, to thyroid hormone they reduce the peaks of blood sugar and this tends to reduce the flow of blood sugar (glucose) into our cells. This in turn reduces the amount of chemical energy produced without our cells. This chemical energy is called adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and it is made by a structure within each cell called a mitochondrion. When there is not enough chemical energy the cells respond by converting less FT4 to FT3 and more FT4 into reverse T3. So, the consequence of low adrenal levels and cortisol in particular is lower FT3 entering the cells. The only danger with having low adrenal levels for a long time is the risk of permanent shrinkage of the adrenal glands. The lack of cortisol can be fixed either by the provision of hydrocortisone or hydrocortisone with DHEA or sometimes also aldosterone needs to be increased (via drugs like Florinef). The alternative to medications is to use the technique that I invented and many are using successfully - the Circadian T3 Method. The CT3M makes the adrenal glands themselves work harder in many cases.

2. Can you explane circadian rythm and T3 and cortisol? I think I read something about the importance of circadian rythm when you take your T3? Should I consider take some of my Thyroid in the early morning/late night? Could it be vital for me?

I don't know if this is vital for you because I cannot see any data from you on the information that I usually look at.

I usually look at:
TSH, FT4, FT3
Current thyroid medication - type, amount and timings
serum iron, serum ferritin, transferrin saturation % - iron panel
B12
folate
vitamin D
cortisol - via a 24 hour adrenal saliva test or 24 hour urinary cortisol test or several serum cortisol tests
body temperature during the day
blood pressure during the day
heart rate during the day
symptoms - main symptoms someone has
their history of thyroid disease - how it started, how it developed, what medication they have used

- so I don't make random comments. Any comments I make are based on a lot of information from a person.

The circadian T3 method is explained fully in my book 'Recovering with T3'. It requires either the T3 that is found in natural desiccated thyroid or standard T3 to work. It will not work well with slow release T3.
Cortisol is produced every day. Most cortisol is made in the last four hours of a person's sleep. Free T3 also peaks around the time this cortisol production starts. So, for someone who get up at 7:00am then most of their cortisol is made between 3:0am and 7:00am. The Circadian T3 Method uses this information to add either some T3 or some NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) medication into this time period. I usually start with about 1 grain of NDT or 10 mcg of T3. I place it 1.5 hours before someone gets up and watch the results. People need to track temperature, heart rate and BP during the day - several times as well as their symptoms. If things are better but not good then it is moved back in time by one half hour earlier. This proceeds to the four hour time - perhaps to 3:00am for a 7:00am riser. If this is not enough then the process is repeated with an increase of thyroid medication. The results have been spectacular. Many people have been made completely well and others have been able to stop their hydrocortisone medication.

3. When you stop using T3/T4 combination and use only T3, will there be a lot of sideeffects by doing this? Or is this change in medication smooth and ok to do? What kind of sideeffects should I expect if I start on T3 treatment only?

Well, firstly to use the CIrcadian T3 Method - you don't need to stop T4/T3 or natural thyroid. Someone would only use T3 on its own if everything had been explored and no solution could be found with NDT or T4/T3.

It is not smooth because the T4 has to be stopped and the T3 can only be started in a low dose to begin with. It takes about 8-12 weeks for all the T4 to clear from the body and it is very important to only slowly raise the T3 dose during this time. So, some hypothyroid symptoms will be present during this process. This is all explained in my book. I also explain all the preparation that needs to happen first - laboratory tests and supplements that need to be taken to make it work smoothly.

I think we will be doing some kind of Q&A tomorrow at 1:00 Norway time.

Best wishes,
Paul

Thank you for your answer, Paul! I have ordered your book and are looking forward to understand more of this. It is a lot of new information for me. I must confess I have already started to take a bit of my NDT early in the morning/late night in two nights, around five o'clock. But one of my problems is sleeplessness. So I decided to just wake up by myself and take the pill. I am a little bit afraid of disturbing my precious sleep by new patterns. But on the other side my function is not satisfaing as it is now, so I am looking in all directions for new answers. I am also looking at LDN. I will see my doc next week, and I hope he are willing to give me LDN.

When it begins to work you get more cortisol. This makes you sleep deeply after you take the dose containing NDT. If your sleep is very disturbed then begin with 2 or 3 hours before you are due to get up. Most people do not believe this works but when it does you sleep like a baby - because you are not short of cortisol anymore. Set your alarm clock to a fixed time and do it. If it is not a fixed time then you won't be able to judge the response and then adjust the new time.
:))))

Oh, alarmclock... I am wondering what the man on the other side of the bed would think about that....

But I see your point clearly, Paul. So, I have in a way started, haven't I?

I often wake up between 3-5 in the morning, with heartbeat. Does this mean that what I feel with the heartbeat is my low cortisol?

Low cortisol - most likely. Also low FT3 in the cells may be an issue.

Use a mobile phone on vibrate under the pillow - no sound just a vibrating head on the pillow!!!! :D

Stupid of me not to think about the mobile phone :lol:

Do you think I could test a little amount of T3 some few days with my NDT just to see if it changed anything? Or do you think I would just be hyper? Could it be a possible try?

I feel like an old woman, I am around 50, and feel like 80, or more. My energy levels are too small. At evenings like now, at 6 o'clock, my energy for this day are used up. Nothing left. So now I have to turn off my computer. My house want a facelift :lol:The beds want new sheets and so on. But I feel drained... The rest of the evening is for relaxing. No more work today. What a dull way to live.....

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson

Use a mobile phone on vibrate under the pillow - no sound just a vibrating head on the pillow!!!! :D

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Remember to turn the mobile off (radiance) - it will still vibrate on time :wink:
Husk stråling - ha aldri påslått mobil liggende i nærheten av hodet :!:

Where do you want to work on this Vigdis ? Here on on Facebook? It is going to be hard to split this with some information in one place and some in another. I need to see the FT4 and FT3 on this NDT dosage. I also need cortisol readings - at least two - one before the first HC dose in the morning and one before a HC dose in the afternoon. Not urinary cortisol but serum cortisol.

Thanks,
Paul

I have a new appointment with my holistic Doc next week. I have to ask him for a new cortisol test.


My last bloodtest was 19.12 2011 (I will get answers from the latest tests next week)

Vit D3 83 (50-150) (it should be at least 125)
S-ALAT (< 45) 36
S-Anti-TPO (< 35) 27
S-DHEA-Sulfat (< 7.5) 9.9
S-Ferritin (15-200) 65
S-Folat (> 5.7) 38.5
FT4 (8-20) 13.8
FT3 (3.6-8.3) 6
TSH (0.5-3.6) 0.03
S-Iron (9-34) 22.7
S-iron saturation (15-50) 34
Vit B12 (170-650) 492
S-Testosteron (< 3) 1.7
U-Aldosterone (5-77) 18
U-Free Cortisol (45-272) 119

Dose Thyroid: 2.25 grain/140 mg
Dose HC: 22.5 mg
Dose Florinef: 0.1 mg
DHEA 25 mg
Small amount of testosterongel, oestreogel etc
50 mg pregnenolone
Bloodpressure: I do not know the numbers, but my GP say it is like a 20-year old (I am 51) I will try to get the results from him
Heartrate: around 70


I think my problem right now have been an too low Thyroid dose. In my opinion, it is one problem with all the Docs I have used: they want me on a small dose of thyroid medications. One year ago, I felt wery well. I used ca 1 grain more thyroid than now. And I used more hydrocortison than I have been using lately. But the latest weeks I tried to rise my Hc, and started to sleep better (also combined with 5-HTP, B6, melatonin etc) than before. So I guessed that a part of my fatigue problem was a too low hc-dose. After chatting with you yesterday, Paul, I added 0.15 mg thyroid on my dose, and felt better in the evening. So I think I shall carry on with Thyroid and see if it will help to rise the dose.

Back to Docs and blood tests: My experience with holistic Docs is that even they too depend too much to bloodtests. My Doc talk about that you can't know if everything comes in to the cell. But on the other hand he says "Your FT3 is too high". Sic! It is not easy to be a non-medical person in this situation. So, I have been listening too much to the Docs demand to lower my dose in spite of a rising FT3, and not listening enough to my body talk:D

Adrenals: I have a long story from childhood, I will not tell my tale here. But I belive my adrenals have been struggling since early childhood. This is one of the reasons I want to try LDN. I have a feeling that I maybe will have to use HC for the rest of my life. But this is something I do not know. It is a guess. But not totally out of the blue :lol:

V, I think I've answered this on Facebook already.

Here is a very short answer:

D is low
Iron is still a little low - saturation to 40% and ferritin higher
FT3 and FT4 can be higher, ignore TSH (low because of prolonged hypo state - ignore it)

You need to be using the Circadian T3 Method to raise cortisol. If cortisol is higher then cellular glucose and ATP will be higher and you'll get more FT3 and less reverse T3 - this is a big area.
Aldosterone is also low.

The Circadian T3 Method is going to be very important to you.

You need a BP meter at home as soon as possible - you can't use the CT3M without a BP meter as driving the adrenals can change BP. You need to be taking body temperature, heart rate and BP reading in the day. You need to create a daily journal with the date, the exact thyroid meds you are taking and what times you take them and you symptoms and signs results. This is far more important than blood tests of TSH, FT4, FT3.

Paul

Thank you for your answer, Paul I will find a BP meter as soon as possible. And start my journal vink11

If I added a small amout of T3 to my Thyroid dosis (and took away a bit of Thyroid) would I then be able to see a difference. I am sorry my head is filled with cotton today! I mean: could I take a kind of test with a very small amount of T3 togeether with my Thyroid. Would I then be able to see if the T3 only maybe was a solution?

You wrote another place

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If someone has spent several years trying to use natural thyroid and their iron is Ok and everything else is OK and they are still unwell then T3 should be tried. Doctors try to tell people that there is 'some other problem' but it is rarely true - it is usually because the thyroid hormone treatment is not working.

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I feel I could be one of those people! I have been using NDT/Thyroid for 3 years now. The latest months I have a feeling of moving backward into worse conditions.

I have tried to take Thyroid in the night (CT3 Metod) some nights now. I wake up with a heatbeat in the night, like 3-4-5 o'clock. But I still have that heartbeat after taking my Thyroid. And cannot sleep the rest of the night. You said earlier

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You need to be using the Circadian T3 Method to raise cortisol. If cortisol is higher then cellular glucose and ATP will be higher and you'll get more FT3 and less reverse T3 - this is a big area.

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So my question is: is my reaction to take Thyroid in the late night a kind of proof that I should start on T3 only?

Tonight I will start on my first dose of LDN, 1.5 mg.

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

If I added a small amout of T3 to my Thyroid dosis (and took away a bit of Thyroid) would I then be able to see a difference. I am sorry my head is filled with cotton today! I mean: could I take a kind of test with a very small amount of T3 togeether with my Thyroid. Would I then be able to see if the T3 only maybe was a solution?

You wrote another place I feel I could be one of those people! I have been using NDT/Thyroid for 3 years now. The latest months I have a feeling of moving backward into worse conditions.

I have tried to take Thyroid in the night (CT3 Metod) some nights now. I wake up with a heatbeat in the night, like 3-4-5 o'clock. But I still have that heartbeat after taking my Thyroid. And cannot sleep the rest of the night. You said earlier

So my question is: is my reaction to take Thyroid in the late night a kind of proof that I should start on T3 only?

Tonight I will start on my first dose of LDN, 1.5 mg.

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No - not necessarily. Iron is only one of the barriers. Cortisol and several other things can be also. How many hours before you get up on a morning did you try to take the NDT and how much T3 is in the NDT dose that you used for the CT3M?

Other barriers are B12, folate, vitamin D, blood sugar/insulin.

You may be a good candidate for T3 replacement but it might still be cortisol or something else. Have you have a cortisol test?

Cortisoltest: Only cortisol i urine some times each year (2-4 x). Salivatest 2.5 year ago, it was pretty low, my Doc said almost Addison's...

Thyroid dose CT3M: ca 0.5 grain, ca 4-5 mcg T3? Is it too low to have any effect?

I use 22.5 mg hc now. I can do some experiments with a higher dose and see if it make any difference.

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

Cortisoltest: Only cortisol i urine some times each year (2-4 x). Salivatest 2.5 year ago, it was pretty low, my Doc said almost Addison's...

Thyroid dose CT3M: ca 0.5 grain, ca 4-5 mcg T3? Is it too low to have any effect?

I use 22.5 mg hc now. I can do some experiments with a higher dose and see if it make any difference.

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Well, I have to ask is it more important to get the thyroid hormones working right with HC or to get the HC down?

4-5 mcg is a bit too low yes.

You can't determine Addison's easily from saliva testing - have you had a Synacthen test? (ACTH Stimulation test - it is the gold standard for testing for Addison's).

My holistic Doc said it was almost Addison's. My GP said it was no point in a Synachen-test. So no test! The cortisol was in the bottom, but still in the bloody normal aerea.

Is there any point in taking Synachen-test now, when I use Cortison?

Ok! I will take a higher dose with thyroid in the mornging/late night vink11

I have bought a BP meter today. I have had a low BP for a long time, checket at my GP each time. Today it seems to be high? 166 systolic 114 Diastolic. Pulse 78. Earlier I used to have a resting pulse on ca 70.

Norwegian:

Jeg har kjøpt et blodtrykksapparat i dag. Jeg har hatt et lavt blodtrykk lenge, fastlegen min sjekket det hver gang jeg var hos ham. I dag ser det ut til å være litt høyt? 166 systolisk 114 Diastoliskc. Puls 78. Jeg har tidligere hatt hvilepuls på ca 70.

Lommelegen om blodtrykk

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

My holistic Doc said it was almost Addison's. My GP said it was no point in a Synachen-test. So no test! The cortisol was in the bottom, but still in the bloody normal aerea.

Is there any point in taking Synachen-test now, when I use Cortison?

Ok! I will take a higher dose with thyroid in the mornging/late night vink11

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No point doing a Synacthen now on HC.

But you can test cortisol on HC see my latest blog:
http://recoveringwitht3.com/blog/usi...drenal-support

If you suspect cortisol is high then you do saliva or blood cortisol test just before your next dose of HC is due.
If you suspect cortisol is low then you do the test a couple of hours after the HC dose.

Paul

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

I have bought a BP meter today. I have had a low BP for a long time, checket at my GP each time. Today it seems to be high? 166 systolic 114 Diastolic. Pulse 78. Earlier I used to have a resting pulse on ca 70.

Norwegian:

Jeg har kjøpt et blodtrykksapparat i dag. Jeg har hatt et lavt blodtrykk lenge, fastlegen min sjekket det hver gang jeg var hos ham. I dag ser det ut til å være litt høyt? 166 systolisk 114 Diastoliskc. Puls 78. je ghar tidligere hatt hvilepuls på ca 70.

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So, this may be related to your medication possibly. You need to take the BP, temp and heart rate at different times of the day and see if it is related to your meds.

If someone is using the Circadian T3 Method and they do too good a job of boosting the adrenals then this can also push BP up - then the timing has to be adjusted or the dose size.

Thank you for your answers Paul.

Right now I feel it extremely difficult to have any idea if my cortisol is low or high. I feel like a wreck..


EDIT/Admin: This thread is translated into Norwegian by piri-piri. You can find the translated thread here: https://www.stofskifteforum.dk/showthread.php?t=14349

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

I have bought a BP meter today. I have had a low BP for a long time, checket at my GP each time. Today it seems to be high? 166 systolic 114 Diastolic. Pulse 78. Earlier I used to have a resting pulse on ca 70.

Lommelegen about blood pressure

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Your BP is high, even if doctors have measured the same on me and daid it was not high. I participated in a research project "Vitamin D against fat", a doctor at UNN said that I as a hypothyroid should not have more than 135 in systolic pressure.

The balance between systolic and diastolic must be right. The nearer numbers, the worse is the BP

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Fra Lommelegen:

The fact that high blood pressure usually does not give any symptoms, means that it is often detected later than it should. There are many different and good treatment for high blood pressure. If treatment is started early, it can prevent much damage to the heart, kidneys and blood vessels, particularly the risk of stroke.

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But Elbeth, my BP is high because of my adrenals/hypo condition. So Paul is right I belive: the solution is in the medication. To find the right dose and the right treatment. The last 2.5 years my BP has been more like low, or like my GP use to say: like a twenty year old...

And low BP is very common when you have adrenal issue

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But Elbeth, my BP is high because of my adrenals/hypo condition. So Paul is right I belive: the solution is in the medication. To find the right dose and the right treatment. The last 2.5 years my BP has been more like low, or like my GP use to say: like a twenty year old...

And low BP is very common when you have adrenal issue

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So this means most doctors don't not have the faintest idea about BP and adrenals. I have hypertension which should mean I have no adrenal problems.
My doctor didn't even think about testing my adrenals with saliva. He let me take a 24 hour urine sample to test the adrenals, though, and I think just because I was nagging. trost1

- "You read too much", he said (meaning if you read a lot about sympoms, you think you have them too)

I do not know, Elbeth. Maybe it is possible to also have a high BP and adreal fatigue? The fatigue can be in different stages

I have been using a rather high dose of pregneolone the last month, 100 mg (before 50 mg). I have been at different sites and saw that it may be the reason to my high pulse and BP now. I stoppet taking pregnenolone for some days and will lower the dose.

Paul told me:

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Many people do not understand conversion of T4. They think adding T3 will simply give them more T3. It doesn't work like that at all. This too is in my book. Even doctors do not understand it. Sometimes if they add T3 they want to reduce T4 - this is a mistake.

Adding T3 will reduce TSH. The liver uses TSH to determine T4 to T3 conversion rate. With a high TSH you get maximum T4 conversion rate to T3. With a low TSH you get the minimum conversion rate. Once TSH is zero the conversion rate cannot get lower and adding more T3 or T4 then always adds more T3 (but it could also add more reverse T3 - this is a different issue).

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I am pretty sure I am on an too low dose with NDT/thyroid right now. The latest days I have felt cold, cold hands and feet. And ofcourse, the fatigue. Oh, yes, i have been here several times before. Why do I not discover it a bit earlier? I increase my dose.

And my early morning dose or late nightdose is going to be 1.5 grain or 90 mg NDT/Thyroid. It will contain 12.13.5 mcg with T3. 0.5 grain or 1 grain is a too low dose. The target is to make a change in the adrenals, and then it has to be enough T3.

Today I have also learned that people respond different on LDN. Some people have to lower their thyroidmedication. But other have to increase it! So I have to be observant for anything to happend now as an LDN'er :lol:

Day 2 with LDN, 1.5 mg. Night dose 1.5 grain/90 mg NDT/Thyroid. Yesterday I understood that I was underdosed. So now I have raised my dose from 2.25 grain to 2.75 grain. I got the right feeling in my body after some hours. Another thing: I used my new BP meter wrongly, so the BP showed too much. In the morning today BP 132/90, my pulse 69. So, I assume that I am on the right track when my pulse is falling down from 80-85. Yesterday I cut down on my hydrocortison, from 22.5 mg to 17.5 mg. I did not need anymore. The CT3M will probably help my body to make more cortisol from no on. It's my hope! I need a lot of hope hjerte1

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Second if you respond like that to Armour then you probably have an issue with cortisol or iron. The irregular sleep pattern is the result of this NOT the cause. Wilson's ideas on sleeping until 8-9 are wrong. He is also wrong that cortisol rises from 6am to 8am. His book was not based on the latest understanding of the rhythm of cortisol. You should not worry about Wilson's comments on this - they aren't right. You work in the week so your adrenals will conform to your weekday pattern because this is the main sleep wake pattern you have. So, most of your cortisol production will occur in the four hours before you get up in the week day.

The big issue is that your cortisol production is probably low, your iron may be low, low B12 may be low etc etc.

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Paul wrote this here

This is very interesting! Because for a very long time I woke up around 2-3-4 o'clock in the night with heartbeat, and had trouble with sleeping more. I know my holitic doctor use to say to his hypo patients that this means they have too much T3. I have never really belived that this was the right answer to my wakening in the middle of the night. For me it felt like a cortisol issuse. I tried even for a time to take hydrocortison at night, but it felt completly wrong.

I also work with raising my B12 and iron. None of my doctors made any comments about the level of any of them.....

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

Day 2 with LDN, 1.5 mg. Night dose 1.5 grain/90 mg NDT/Thyroid. Yesterday I understood that I was underdosed. So now I have raised my dose from 2.25 grain to 2.75 grain. I got the right feeling in my body after some hours. Another thing: I used my new BP meter wrongly, so the BP showed too much. In the morning today BP 132/90, my pulse 69. So, I assume that I am on the right track when my pulse is falling down from 80-85. Yesterday I cut down on my hydrocortison, from 22.5 mg to 17.5 mg. I did not need anymore. The CT3M will probably help my body to make more cortisol from no on. It's my hope! I need a lot of hope hjerte1

Paul wrote this here

This is very interesting! Because for a very long time I woke up around 2-3-4 o'clock in the night with heartbeat, and had trouble with sleeping more. I know my holitic doctor use to say to his hypo patients that this means they have too much T3. I have never really belived that this was the right answer to my wakening in the middle of the night. For me it felt like a cortisol issuse. I tried even for a time to take hydrocortison at night, but it felt completly wrong.

I also work with raising my B12 and iron. None of my doctors made any comments about the level of any of them.....

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Can you always please write down precisely the NDT individual doses you are using and the timings and what time you get up on a morning - so I can see how much T3 is being used and how it is applying the CT3M. Thanks.

Make sure you use enough iron - it takes 100-200 mg of elemental iron to raise iron levels.

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson

Can you always please write down precisely the NDT individual doses you are using and the timings and what time you get up on a morning - so I can see how much T3 is being used and how it is applying the CT3M. Thanks.

Make sure you use enough iron - it takes 100-200 mg of elemental iron to raise iron levels.

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Also I am not used to seeing natural thyroid in milligrams - it would be easier for me to see it either in grains or ideally converted in to the equivalent mcg of T4 and mcg of T3. Thanks again. If we can optimise the CT3M dose fast then we can make you much better very quickly!! :)

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson

Also I am not used to seeing natural thyroid in milligrams - it would be easier for me to see it either in grains or ideally converted in to the equivalent mcg of T4 and mcg of T3. Thanks again. If we can optimise the CT3M dose fast then we can make you much better very quickly!! :)

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On these threads I am struggling to work out WHO is the poster - which person I am speaking to - could the person posting put their name clearly first- I find this forum structure hard to follow. Much harder than Facebook.

I am sorry you get confused here Paul! You see my name and the picture of the dog and the cat to the left. Then it is me who are the author. But I posted something you said in another tread whith a link to the tread, because I felt it had a lot to do with my problems.

I wake up today 6 15, I took my nightdose at 3 30 in the night. 1.5 grain. Ca 13.5 mcg T3 in 1.5 grain, isn't it?

I write grain/mg because some of us who have been using NDT (Thyroid) for a long time are used to the term "grain". But the new Erfa Thyroid is sold by mg, but they are in fact sold by grain, 30 mg (0.5 grain), 60 mg (1 grain) and 125 mg (2 grain). So I try to inform everybody. You know Paul, right now you are the teacher, I am the new kid in your class. But this tread will be read by a lot of people later.. They will learn by reading. I just try to be a little bit pedagogic by making it simpler. At least I try....

I took a new, small dose of NDT 0.25 grain at 10 o'clock because I went to my gym (first time in a week, I felt so much better today!).

My plan is to take 1 grain NDT later this day. I am afraid of taking to much. But on the other hand, I have been undertreated for some time, but I rather do not want to have too little..

Iron: I take 25 mg. You mean this is a too small dose? Should I take 100-200 mg?
B12: I use liquid B12, ca 1000 -2000 mg each day now. it contains also some of the other B-vitamins

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I am sorry you get confused here Paul! You see my name and the picture of the dog and the cat to the left. Then it is me who are the author. But I posted something you said in another tread whith a link to the tread, because I felt it had a lot to do with my problems.

I wake up today 6 15, I took my nightdose at 3 30 in the night. 1.5 grain. Ca 13.5 mcg T3 in 1.5 grain, isn't it?

I write grain/mg because some of us who have been using NDT (Thyroid) for a long time are used to the term "grain". But the new Erfa Thyroid is sold by mg, but they are in fact sold by grain, 30 mg (0.5 grain), 60 mg (1 grain) and 125 mg (2 grain). So I try to inform everybody. You know Paul, right now you are the teacher, I am the new kid in your class. But this tread will be read by a lot of people later.. They will learn by reading. I just try to be a little bit pedagogic by making it simpler. At least I try....

I took a new, small dose of NDT 0.25 grain at 10 o'clock because I went to my gym (first time in a week, I felt so much better today!).

My plan is to take 1 grain NDT later this day. I am afraid of taking to much. But on the other hand, I have been undertreated for some time, but I rather do not want to have too little..

Iron: I take 25 mg. You mean this is a too small dose? Should I take 100-200 mg?
B12: I use liquid B12, ca 1000 -2000 mg each day now. it contains also some of the other B-vitamins

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Yeah - I'm familiar with grains but it is easier if grains and the T3 content in mcg is used to be certain we are clear.
Is your BP OK now? (if it was you that had it higher yesterday). The 1.5 grains is about 13 mcg T3 yes. Your first dose can move to 2:15am IF we have to but you may be fine at 3:30am - we have to leave it stable now for some days and watch the result. This is the cool part when the adrenals begin to work and you feel better again!!! :) I am very hopeful!!!

25 mg of iron is a drop in the ocean and is not enough to raise iron. You need 200-300 mg of ferrous gluconate or ferrous fumerate twice a day to get your levels higher. Ferrous sulphate is harder on the digestive system. It can take 6 months to move iron up. It is like pushing a ten ton truck - very hard to move it. My book has a list of the key supplements. Here is what I recommend for the thyroid and adrenal pathways:

B complex (50mg of B1-B6) - twice a day with food.
B12 - 500mcg-1000mcg - once a day with food (you already have this covered).
C - 500mg four to six times a day - with or without food
D3 - 2500 - 5000 IUS a day - once a day if no kidney problems (higher if low)
a chelated multi-mineral - once a day with food
200-400mg chelated magnesium (has to be chelated) - twice a day with food.

Enjoy!!!

Sitat:

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul Robinson

Yeah - I'm familiar with grains but it is easier if grains and the T3 content in mcg is used to be certain we are clear.
Is your BP OK now? (if it was you that had it higher yesterday). The 1.5 grains is about 13 mcg T3 yes. Your first dose can move to 2:15am IF we have to but you may be fine at 3:30am - we have to leave it stable now for some days and watch the result. This is the cool part when the adrenals begin to work and you feel better again!!! :) I am very hopeful!!!

25 mg of iron is a drop in the ocean and is not enough to raise iron. You need 200-300 mg of ferrous gluconate or ferrous fumerate twice a day to get your levels higher. Ferrous sulphate is harder on the digestive system. It can take 6 months to move iron up. It is like pushing a ten ton truck - very hard to move it. My book has a list of the key supplements. Here is what I recommend for the thyroid and adrenal pathways:

B complex (50mg of B1-B6) - twice a day with food.
B12 - 500mcg-1000mcg - once a day with food (you already have this covered).
C - 500mg four to six times a day - with or without food
D3 - 2500 - 5000 IUS a day - once a day if no kidney problems (higher if low)
a chelated multi-mineral - once a day with food
200-400mg chelated magnesium (has to be chelated) - twice a day with food.

Enjoy!!!

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Vigdis I'd like to see your BP,heart rate, body temperature and main symptoms being recorded in your daily notebook with the exact natural thyroid dosing you are using. Record these every day. Sometimes it is necessary to take 3-5 sets of readings to really understand how things change over a day. Don't be fooled just by how you are feeling - symptoms sometimes lie. Getting the BP/heart rate and temp readings is very important when combined with symptoms.

Sometime over the next few days you could post some results here for me/others to look at - they will see also what I mean by recording then. When you post any results also precede it with: get up time; thyroid medication doses and times as I have already discussed - then all the useful information is available.

I already take some of the other B's in my B12 liquid.
D3=35 000 IE per week right now
2 grams of Esther C every day
4-1200 mg magnesium every day
100 mg selen
I also take B6, niacin, 100 mg every evening for my sleep aid

I have ordered a thermometer, it will take some time before it arrive. The BP is still high, but better than yesterday, when I did it all wrong: 132/90

So from now on I will eat a lot of iron, thank you for your kind help vink11

Sitat:

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

I already take some of the other B's in my B12 liquid.
D3=35 000 IE per week right now
2 grams of Esther C every day
4-1200 mg magnesium every day
100 mg selen
I also take B6, niacin, 100 mg every evening for my sleep aid

I have ordered a thermometer, it will take some time before it arrive. The BP is still high, but better than yesterday, when I did it all wrong: 132/90

So from now on I will eat a lot of iron, thank you for your kind help vink11

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The big issue above is lack of B1, etc in 100mg per day level - B1,B2,B3,B4,B5 and B6 all need to be taken twice a day with food at around 50mg each. These are components of many enzymes and processes - lack of B1 for instance will cause very rapid heart rate which can make T3 treatment look like it is failing. I want BP to 120/80 in the next few days if not then we re-think dosage/timing. Safety is always the priority - it has to be with any thyroid hormone.

I take 1.5 grain (ca 13 mcg T3) Thyroid 3 30 in the night.
17.03 BP 132/90 pulse 69 morning, middle of the day 148/98 pulse 76, evening 128/79 pulse 80
18.03 BP 123/82 pulse 84 morning, middle of the day 134/89 pulse 85, evening 121/78 pulse 66
19.03 BP 121/79 pulse 76 morning, middle of the day 119/79 pulse 73, evening 129/85 pulse 77
20.03 BP 110/72 pulse 84

I have not got a good thermometer yet, so my temperatur is missing.
I have a little trouble with sleeping. Not much now, but I wake up too many times during the night.
Before I started taking Thyroid in the night, I used a too mall dose of Thyroid (2.25 grain). I use 2.75 grain now. It feels good, changing of mood: more positive thinking, a bigger wish to fight, not give up and see the hopelessness. It is a nice dope this T3 ha-ha! :lol: I feel warmer. I have more energy through the day and in in the evening. So my doctor was underdosing me. And I feel like an idiot who let him do it. :mrgreen: I was looking for the reason of my fatigue everywhere else that in the most obvious place.

I was at 22.5 mg hydrocortison last week. yesterday I used 17.5 mg. I am a little afraid I went too fast. So today I will try 20 mg. I had two periods of dizziness through the day yesterday. For me the dizziness have to do with too low cortisol.

I also observe that I need several doses of Thyroid though the day. So I take Thyroid in the night, the next around 10-12 o'clock, and one around 14 and on in the evening.

The BP this morning is too low. Can you read anything out of that Paul?

BP now at 15 40 o'clock: 111/73, pulse 80. It is a little low today. Why? Is it my adrenals?

Sitat:

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Opprinnelig skrevet av Vigdis

I take 1.5 grain (ca 13 mcg T3) Thyroid 3 30 in the night.
17.03 BP 132/90 pulse 69 morning, middle of the day 148/98 pulse 76, evening 128/79 pulse 80
18.03 BP 123/82 pulse 84 morning, middle of the day 134/89 pulse 85, evening 121/78 pulse 66
19.03 BP 121/79 pulse 76 morning, middle of the day 119/79 pulse 73, evening 129/85 pulse 77
20.03 BP 110/72 pulse 84

I have not got a good thermometer yet, so my temperatur is missing.
I have a little trouble with sleeping. Not much now, but I wake up too many times during the night.
Before I started taking Thyroid in the night, I used a too mall dose of Thyroid (2.25 grain). I use 2.75 grain now. It feels good, changing of mood: more positive thinking, a bigger wish to fight, not give up and see the hopelessness. It is a nice dope this T3 ha-ha! :lol: I feel warmer. I have more energy through the day and in in the evening. So my doctor was underdosing me. And I feel like an idiot who let him do it. :mrgreen: I was looking for the reason of my fatigue everywhere else that in the most obvious place.

I was at 22.5 mg hydrocortison last week. yesterday I used 17.5 mg. I am a little afraid I went too fast. So today I will try 20 mg. I had two periods of dizziness through the day yesterday. For me the dizziness have to do with too low cortisol.

I also observe that I need several doses of Thyroid though the day. So I take Thyroid in the night, the next around 10-12 o'clock, and one around 14 and on in the evening.

The BP this morning is too low. Can you read anything out of that Paul?

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110/72 is normal for many people. 148/98 isn't though - it is high. The BPs/pulses all look better now. Slow weaning of HC is very important - very slow. You will need a cortisol test at some point. One of my recent blogs shows how to use a saliva test for cortisol when still on HC. You need a thermometer!!!

I know, but I have to order thermometer from abroad. I do not think I can get that kind of thermometer in Norway.
I am going to ask my doctor tomorrow about a new cortisoltest.

I have seen your post about testing, I made a tread in this forum https://www.stofskifteforum.dk/showthread.php?t=14367. This is important for many of us!